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Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonances (Read 21253 times)
frankuitaalst
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Re: Haumeas orbit
Reply #15 - 02/05/09 at 10:58:43
 
As mentionned in several articles cited above TNO's can be influenced by the Kozai mechanism .  
The same was said about Haumea .  
 
Haumeas orbit was simulated hereunder for 2*10^6 years from now .  
The orbit changes a lot as can be seen in the animation herunder .  
However the evolution of  eccentricity and inclination shows a relative small change of these parameters .  
So the main reason for the strongly changing orbit might be due to the precession of the perhelion ...
In this animation Haumeas orbit is shown from the Aries vernal point .  
Neptunes orbit is in blue
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Haumea_2Mioy_Anim.gif
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kheider
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #16 - 02/06/09 at 01:28:43
 
Quote from frankuitaalst on 02/05/09 at 10:11:42:
Using the recent observational data of JPL Neo asteroid 2001KU76 seems to perform a nice librating 11:6 resonance to Neptune .
Simulation was run for 40.000y in frames of 11*164.8 years

 
I've created a simple article for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(182294)_2001_KU76     (cut & paste link from left.  I don't think Yabb likes multiple underscores in a url.)  
 
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frankuitaalst
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Eris
Reply #17 - 02/09/09 at 10:42:33
 
I've made a long term simulation of Eris , lasting for 4000.000 years from now .  
Eris in red , Pluto in grey .  
Its curious how slowly the orbit of Eris precesses in relation to Plutos precession.  
But , what I find amazing in this picture is that the perihelion and aphelion don't seem to be alligned to the sun in the center . Is this some kind of optical illusion ?  
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ErislongAnimation4Mioy.gif
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #18 - 02/09/09 at 12:37:20
 
Yes, it's an illusion.  You are looking top-down on the ecliptic plane, rather than top-down on Eris' orbital plane.
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #19 - 02/09/09 at 12:58:59
 
Quote from Tony on 02/09/09 at 12:37:20:
Yes, it's an illusion.  You are looking top-down on the ecliptic plane, rather than top-down on Eris' orbital plane.

Well ... I've some difficulty to visualize what you're saying . Any hint ?  
 
Edit : What I really want to say is , if one projects an ellipse onto a non orthogonal plane it should remain an ellipse with focus alligned with periapsis and apsis , or isn't it ?  
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« Last Edit: 02/09/09 at 14:26:39 by frankuitaalst »  
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #20 - 02/09/09 at 19:41:48
 
I think it's because of perspective effects - what looks like the aphelion/perihelion point on the ellipse in this view aren't actually the real aphelion/perihelion points.
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #21 - 02/10/09 at 00:39:31
 
I agree with Mal.  Consider this image from the website logo:  http://www.orbitsimulator.com/gravity/articles/ssystem.GIF
 
Because of perspective, every planet appears to have 2 aphelions and 2 perihelions, and a line connecting an appearant aphelion to an appearant perihelion doesn't pass through the sun.
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #22 - 02/10/09 at 11:50:54
 
Quote from Tony on 02/10/09 at 00:39:31:
I agree with Mal.  Consider this image from the website logo:  http://www.orbitsimulator.com/gravity/articles/ssystem.GIF

Because of perspective, every planet appears to have 2 aphelions and 2 perihelions, and a line connecting an appearant aphelion to an appearant perihelion doesn't pass through the sun.

Thanks for the replies ... but I'm still hungry ...or even stupid ...
I surely can imagine that using a perspective view can distort images , but in this case it is a projection in the xy-plane , not a perspective view .  
As far as I remember a straight line ( ie the line from aphelion over the focus the perihelion) still remains a straight line when projected on anaother non orthogonal plane , meaning even in this projection the focus should be on the line connecting aphelion and perihelion . Si still confused... undecided
BTW Tony : the picture you refer to , is this a screenshot of GravSim or was it drawn into perspective ?  
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #23 - 02/10/09 at 12:47:54
 
It's a screenshot with minor touch-ups.
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #24 - 02/11/09 at 23:23:15
 
Quote from frankuitaalst on 02/03/09 at 10:25:03:
Question : running some of the resonance patterns of Neptune I noticed that some asteroids have a libration period of about 20000 years . Somebody here knows what the reason is for this libration period ?
Is there some special mechanism active here ?  undecided

 
Pluto is the largest nearby body that has frequent interactions with Neptune (Not including planets or moons).  Eris likely does not count since it interacts less often and certainly is not in a strong resonance with Neptune.  Pluto has a libration period of 20,000 years.
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-345/p132.htm
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-345/ch8.htm
 
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #25 - 02/12/09 at 11:50:26
 
[quote author=kheider link=1233546227/15#24 date=1234423395
Pluto is the largest nearby body that has frequent interactions with Neptune (Not including planets or moons).  Eris likely does not count since it interacts less often and certainly is not in a strong resonance with Neptune.  Pluto has a libration period of 20,000 years.
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-345/p132.htm
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-345/ch8.htm
 
-- Kevin [/quote]
Thanks for the wonderful links ! I've never discovered them till now..
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2007 OR10
Reply #26 - 03/11/09 at 12:16:12
 
The very preliminary orbit of 2007 OR10 (H=1.9; large dwarf planet candidate) seems to suggest that it is in a 10:3 resonance with Neptune.
Buie/DES: http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~buie/kbo/astrom/07OR10.html (see 10Myr integration at bottom of 3rd page)
JPL: http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=2007OR10 (poorly know orbit; quality code=5)
Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_OR10
 
Does GravSim show this resonance?
 
-- Kevin
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frankuitaalst
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Re: 2007 OR10
Reply #27 - 03/11/09 at 12:50:26
 
Quote from kheider on 03/11/09 at 12:16:12:
The very preliminary orbit of 2007 OR10 (H=1.9; large dwarf planet candidate) seems to suggest that it is in a 10:3 resonance with Neptune.
Buie/DES: http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~buie/kbo/astrom/07OR10.html (see 10Myr integration at bottom of 3rd page)
JPL: http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=2007OR10 (poorly know orbit; quality code=5)
Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_OR10

Does GravSim show this resonance?

-- Kevin

Where do you get all this interesting bodies from Kevin ?  Smiley
Ran a sim for 45000y , from which 26000y are shown in the animation herunder .  
Plutos orbit is shown in grey for reference , Neptune is the white dot .  
I think about 26000 y may correspond to one libration period of the 10:3 resonance .  
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2007OR10_Anim26000y.gif
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kheider
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Re: 2007 OR10
Reply #28 - 03/11/09 at 14:40:08
 
Hi Frank.  Thank you for the animation.  But it does look a little "busy" for a general article on 2007 OR10.  Can you do one without Pluto or the final overlay?  Just a simple animation showing the preliminary libration, like you did with http://www.orbitsimulator.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/2001XT254Anim.gif ?
-- Kevin
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frankuitaalst
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2007OR10
Reply #29 - 03/12/09 at 09:15:12
 
Animation hereunder should be more suited .  
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2007OR10.gif
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