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Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonances (Read 25328 times)
kheider
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Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonances
02/01/09 at 19:43:47
 
frankuitaalst I see your Eris plot of 40,000 years.  Very nice.  Can you do one for Makemake?
http://www.orbitsimulator.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/TEris_to_NeptuneJan2009.jpg
 
Tony, have you given any thought to updating the page (or the simulations) of the 17:5 Eris and 11:6 Makemake resonances?  I realize we can't confirm a stable resonance, but we can certainly show the near resonances given current orbital data.
http://www.orbitsimulator.com/gravity/articles/newtno.html
 
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #1 - 02/01/09 at 22:44:53
 
Quote from kheider on 02/01/09 at 19:43:47:
frankuitaalst I see your Eris plot of 40,000 years.  Very nice.  Can you do one for Makemake?
http://www.orbitsimulator.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/TEris_to_NeptuneJan2009.jpg

Tony, have you given any thought to updating the page (or the simulations) of the 17:5 Eris and 11:6 Makemake resonances?  I realize we can't confirm a stable resonance, but we can certainly show the near resonances given current orbital data.
http://www.orbitsimulator.com/gravity/articles/newtno.html

-- Kevin

I've made a plot of Makemake , in which it seems not to be in resonance . Even other resonances don't match . Anxious to see with which results Tony comes...
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kheider
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #2 - 02/03/09 at 01:35:42
 
Hello Frank/Tony;
 
Have you played with the Haumea 12:7 resonance?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_EL61
 
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #3 - 02/03/09 at 09:17:20
 
Quote from kheider on 02/03/09 at 01:35:42:
Hello Frank/Tony;

Have you played with the Haumea 12:7 resonance?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_EL61

-- Kevin

Not yet ..., but I noticed an error in the orbital period in this article  
But ... a now running sim gives  beautiful picture  Smiley
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #4 - 02/03/09 at 10:25:03
 
Haumea has a nice librating resonance to Neptune (12:7) .
The animation covers 10 frames , each having 12*164.8 years .  
 
Hint : it seems Haumea is under influence of the Kozai Mechanism .  
This forum has , as far as I remember some nice animations of the Kozai Mechanism .... Wink  
 
Question : running some of the resonance patterns of Neptune I noticed that some asteroids have a libration period of about 20000 years . Somebody here knows what the reason is for this libration period ?  
Is there some special mechanism active here ?  undecided
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #5 - 02/03/09 at 12:58:11
 
I see Frank beat me to it.  Here's my Haumea animation.  Where red turns to green is where it crosses the ecliptic.  Notice that these nodes control the reversal.
 
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #6 - 02/03/09 at 13:01:57
 
Smiley I think Kevin will have to choose ... I like the changing colour feature .  
BTW : I'm running a sim right now in side view in order to see if Haumea is sensitive to the Kozai .  
I'll post it later when finished ...
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kheider
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #7 - 02/03/09 at 19:10:08
 
Quote from frankuitaalst on 02/03/09 at 13:01:57:
Smiley I think Kevin will have to choose ... I like the changing colour feature .
BTW : I'm running a sim right now in side view in order to see if Haumea is sensitive to the Kozai .
I'll post it later when finished ...

 
Hi Guys;
 
I have added Tony's image to two wiki pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_EL61
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_trans-Neptunian_object
 
Both animations are great!  These animations should be great teaching tools.  It is always good to get 2 positive results.  I went with Tony's image since it has the multi-colors showing the nodes controlling the reversal.
 
We will see how this goes.  Since Haumea is a FA (Featured Article) I know that the review process might be more demanding.  But since Brown and Lykawka have both mentioned the 12:7 resonance, it should not be an {{OR}} (original research) concern.  It is a visual representation of currently known data.
 
It would be good to show the libration of Pluto since it is such a well known body. (Hint)
 
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #8 - 02/03/09 at 19:59:29
 
Quote from kheider on 02/03/09 at 19:10:08:
..I went with Tony's image since it has the multi-colors showing the nodes controlling the reversal...

to Frank:  hahahaha  Grin
 
Quote from kheider on 02/03/09 at 19:10:08:
...It would be good to show the libration of Pluto since it is such a well known body. (Hint)

Been there, done that
http://www.orbitsimulator.com/gravity/articles/pluto.html
 
Click the simulations link on that page.  There's pleanty more ready-made animations.
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #9 - 02/04/09 at 12:03:59
 
Quote from frankuitaalst on 02/01/09 at 22:44:53:
I've made a plot of Makemake , in which it seems not to be in resonance . Even other resonances don't match . Anxious to see with which results Tony comes...

 
As we know, Makemake is near the 11:6 resonance.  According to Lykawka (2006) 182294 (2001 KU76) is in a 11:6 resonance.
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=Makemake
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=182294
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~buie/kbo/astrom/182294.html   (last obs: 2008/05/03; 29 obs over 6.94yr; shows nominal=classical and sigma clones=11:6)
 
-- Kevin
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Haumea
Reply #10 - 02/04/09 at 12:04:40
 
As promised above I've run a long simulation of Haumea , up to 1.000.000 years ( million , billion ??)  
Animation covers 88 frames .  
Neptunes orbit in blue , Haumeas orbit in red . The system is viewed edge-on .  
I don't know whats happening here exactly . In my first opinion the behaviour is due to a lot more then Kozai alone , as I dont see a significant change in eccentricity .
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Haumea1MioYears.gif
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #11 - 02/05/09 at 08:48:26
 
Quote from kheider on 02/04/09 at 12:03:59:
As we know, Makemake is near the 11:6 resonance.  According to Lykawka (2006) 182294 (2001 KU76) is in a 11:6 resonance.
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~buie/kbo/astrom/182294.html   (last obs: 2008/05/03; 29 obs over 6.94yr; shows nominal=classical and sigma clones=11:6)
-- Kevin

 
Does the current JPL nominal orbit of 182294 show a libration?  If it does I could create a side article that Haumea could link to.
-- Kevin
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #12 - 02/05/09 at 09:10:00
 
I can run a quick sim of this . Where do you see this object has a resonance ?
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kheider
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #13 - 02/05/09 at 09:32:09
 
Quote from frankuitaalst on 02/05/09 at 09:10:00:
I can run a quick sim of this . Where do you see this object has a resonance ?

 
According to Lykawka (Received April 11, 2007) 182294 (2001 KU76) is in a 11:6 resonance.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AstL...34..271E  (subscription required)
 
Of course we now have orbital data from 2008. Smiley  Though I would think the change would be small.
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frankuitaalst
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Re: Eris 17:5 and Makemake 11:6 status of resonanc
Reply #14 - 02/05/09 at 10:11:42
 
Using the recent observational data of JPL Neo asteroid 2001KU76 seems to perform a nice librating 11:6 resonance to Neptune .  
Simulation was run for 40.000y in frames of 11*164.8 years
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