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General >> Discussion >> Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
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Message started by frankuitaalst on 06/15/14 at 04:04:28

Title: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by frankuitaalst on 06/15/14 at 04:04:28

In 2012 an object was discovered at 83 AU from the sun ! . This is far beyond Pluto's orbit .

According to Wikipedia :
"2012 VP113 has the largest perihelion distance of any known object in the Solar System.[12] Its last perihelion was around 1979,[a] at a distance of 80 AU;[2] it is currently 83 AU from the Sun. Only four other Solar System objects are known to have perihelia larger than 47 AU: Sedna (76 AU), 2004 XR190 (51 AU), 2010 GB174 (48 AU), and 2004 VN112 (47 AU).[12] "

Hereby is an animation of the above cited objects.
2012 VP113 appears in green , Sedna in red .
The outer planets ( Jupiter , Saturn , Uranus, Neptune, Pluto )   of our solar system appear in red , hardly visible in the center of the animation .
The screen width of the animation is 2500 AU !
Each individual frame covers 250 years .

Title: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by frankuitaalst on 06/15/14 at 04:11:25

The animation hereunder accentuates on the tremendous large orbits of the above cited objects .
The scene starts with the orbits of Jupiter ( red) , saturn ( yellow) , Uranus ( green ) , Neptune ( blue) , Pluto (white ) at a screen width of 60 AU and gradually zooms out to cover the orbits of all the objects , including Sedna's orbit .
2012 VP113 is represented in green , Sedna in red .

Title: Re: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by frankuitaalst on 06/15/14 at 04:20:20

What do all above objects have in common ?
Well : they all were in a place of their  orbit beyond Plutos orbit  at their discovery ; the most furthes ttill now  was discovered at 80 AU  .
Looking at the picture the aphelion of most of these objects is much much larger than 80 AU.
Orbital period can be  10.000 years or more.  
This means that there may be plenty of objects "out there"  , now being at or around  their aphelion and waiting for their dicovery which may take 5000 years or more with the present technology of detection .

Title: Re: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by EDG on 06/18/14 at 02:33:46

Are these the ones that all have similar arguments of perihelion, that may indicate that there are two undiscovered trans-neptunian planets out there tweaking their orbits?
http://spaceref.com/astronomy/are-there-large-planets-beyond-pluto.html

Title: Re: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by frankuitaalst on 06/19/14 at 09:13:37

Thanks for the article EDG . I wasn't aware of this , here is the article itself .
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1406.0715v2.pdf
To answer your question : I simply made a choice by the paper which I quoted .
The objects choosen were the objects which were discovered being further than Pluto's orbit .
This means the paper above deals with other objects .
It would be nice to run a sim with  GraSim with a super earth and see what happens to the orbits .

Title: Re: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by frankuitaalst on 07/04/14 at 15:50:44

The paper above claims that the distribution of the orbits of these recently discovered far away "asteroids"  may hint to the presence of a potential "earth sized " planet , maybe having  several earth masses , orbiting at about 250 AU . The article is rather technical and seems to be based on a lot of simulations ....
Just by curiousity I've run the simulation again over about 1000 ky , adding a hypothetical planet having 10 Earth masses at 250 AU .
I would have expected this addition should alter the orbits of the bodies , but to my surprise the orbits do not seem to be altered in a noticible way ...This simulation seems not to support the hint for an undetected planet at this distance .
I may post the result later .

Title: Re: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by frankuitaalst on 07/05/14 at 06:16:34

Here's the sim of which I talked above .

A body having 8 Earth's mass was added at 250 AU . The animation flips between the orbits of the asteroids with and without the 8 Earths mass body .
The influence of this body on the orbits seems to be little after 1300 kYears .  

Title: Re: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by Tony on 07/05/14 at 11:03:18

I haven't read the paper, but maybe try starting with many test particles at 250 AU (+- a little so their periods are slightly different), along with the planet.  Then see if the planet scatters them into the types of orbits we observe.

Title: Re: Large perihelion objects - 2012 VP113
Post by frankuitaalst on 07/13/14 at 02:41:11

Good Idea !
I've run a sim with 100 bodies at 200 AU , ecc =0.8 ,at incl 20% with random ArgFf and LAN ,  perturbed by an 8 Earth body at 250 AU with zero eccentricity and inc=0.
One expects then Kozai to come in.
Due to the large Kozai cycle  the sim takes a very long time . I cut the sim after 3 Mio years.
Here is the plot of the resulting changes of the Arf-g. of Perifocus of which the article talkes .
The ArgPf seems to drift in time ( probably due to the 8 E planet which drags the orbits ...) , but as far as I can see the individual bodies do not tend to arange their ArfPf around 0 or 360 degrees ....

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